WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.000 - Welcome to another edition of The Drunken Philosophers. 00:00:05.000 --> 00:00:10.700 Thank you for being our attentive listeners. 00:00:10.700 --> 00:00:15.700 This is Scott and my notable compatriot Ben is here. 00:00:15.700 --> 00:00:20.180 - Hi. 00:00:20.180 --> 00:00:25.180 - We are thinking of ourselves as fortunate 00:00:26.460 --> 00:00:30.280 that we've been reminiscing on our many ways 00:00:30.280 --> 00:00:35.280 that life is good, but we're not quite sure 00:00:35.280 --> 00:00:38.420 how to qualify that. 00:00:38.420 --> 00:00:44.680 We think that it probably has many meanings 00:00:44.680 --> 00:00:50.720 and in fact sometimes the word good can be construed 00:00:52.320 --> 00:00:57.320 as smug or as elitist and we'd like to know 00:00:57.320 --> 00:01:07.560 or like to try to just explore 00:01:07.560 --> 00:01:10.480 what it is that makes a good life. 00:01:10.480 --> 00:01:15.480 So Ben, what do you, what's your first momentary knee jerk? 00:01:15.480 --> 00:01:18.280 - Well, can I just provide some background 00:01:18.280 --> 00:01:20.080 in what got me thinking about this? 00:01:20.080 --> 00:01:22.520 - You know, when you ask permission, I have four. 00:01:22.520 --> 00:01:24.880 - Oh, okay. 00:01:24.880 --> 00:01:25.720 - Nevermind. 00:01:25.720 --> 00:01:30.000 - Sorry, no, I just like to, I was just, 00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:32.720 I kind of like to base these conversations a lot 00:01:32.720 --> 00:01:33.980 on things that I've come across 00:01:33.980 --> 00:01:36.880 at the Drunken Philosophy meetings, right? 00:01:36.880 --> 00:01:41.880 And at the last one I hosted about a week and a half ago, 00:01:41.880 --> 00:01:45.440 I, that was what somebody wrote, 00:01:45.440 --> 00:01:48.120 somebody brought a whole book about it 00:01:48.120 --> 00:01:51.280 to share with the group actually about what makes a good life. 00:01:51.280 --> 00:01:52.200 - Okay. 00:01:52.200 --> 00:01:54.640 - And so we started talking about that. 00:01:54.640 --> 00:01:56.320 It was a very good conversation. 00:01:56.320 --> 00:02:01.320 - Was this book a prescription or just musings 00:02:01.320 --> 00:02:05.660 on what makes a good life? 00:02:05.660 --> 00:02:07.200 - You know, I couldn't really say 00:02:07.200 --> 00:02:11.640 'cause although I added it to my wishlist on Amazon, 00:02:11.640 --> 00:02:14.600 I mean, I haven't read it, it's really based around, 00:02:16.020 --> 00:02:20.720 it's subtitle is "The Ancient Art of Stoic Joy." 00:02:20.720 --> 00:02:22.560 So it's one of those stoic books. 00:02:22.560 --> 00:02:23.520 - Okay. 00:02:23.520 --> 00:02:28.280 - And I looked at the table of contents a bit. 00:02:28.280 --> 00:02:33.120 It just, from looking at that, 00:02:33.120 --> 00:02:36.020 I would say it's got, it's more or less prescriptive, yeah. 00:02:36.020 --> 00:02:42.160 But I think, I'm sure it leaves a lot open to the individual. 00:02:42.160 --> 00:02:44.440 But I don't know, I didn't really read the book. 00:02:44.440 --> 00:02:45.760 We just started talking about any of it. 00:02:45.760 --> 00:02:48.000 We started to, well, I hope to at some point. 00:02:48.000 --> 00:02:49.960 It looks like a good book. 00:02:49.960 --> 00:02:52.880 But it was a conversation more of what makes a good life. 00:02:52.880 --> 00:02:53.800 - Yeah. 00:02:53.800 --> 00:02:55.320 - That was fun and interesting. 00:02:55.320 --> 00:02:58.920 And I think like a very worthwhile topic in general. 00:02:58.920 --> 00:03:01.880 We didn't get too far. 00:03:01.880 --> 00:03:07.000 Mostly what we basically got to the point of agreeing 00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:12.100 that what does not make a good life is happiness. 00:03:12.100 --> 00:03:12.940 - No. 00:03:12.940 --> 00:03:17.720 - In the more superficial sense, at least. 00:03:17.720 --> 00:03:18.720 - Okay. 00:03:18.720 --> 00:03:21.440 - Which I, yeah, I don't know. 00:03:21.440 --> 00:03:22.280 What do you think? 00:03:22.280 --> 00:03:27.280 - Well, I guess the irony of that is notable 00:03:27.280 --> 00:03:37.320 in that that would be most people's initial qualification 00:03:37.320 --> 00:03:41.040 for a good life, happiness. 00:03:41.180 --> 00:03:42.020 - Hmm. 00:03:42.020 --> 00:03:44.020 - Yeah. 00:03:44.020 --> 00:03:48.020 - The, try to imagine what the 00:03:48.020 --> 00:03:56.220 disqualification was for happiness 00:03:56.220 --> 00:04:00.460 because it does seem like that's a prerequisite. 00:04:00.460 --> 00:04:02.900 If you're living in, 00:04:02.900 --> 00:04:09.780 and maybe it's simply a, 00:04:09.780 --> 00:04:14.780 an offshoot or an obvious remnant 00:04:14.780 --> 00:04:24.920 of all the good things that happen in your life 00:04:24.920 --> 00:04:25.820 that you're happy. 00:04:25.820 --> 00:04:32.160 But I would wager that unhappy people 00:04:32.160 --> 00:04:37.360 aren't living a good life. 00:04:38.660 --> 00:04:40.940 - Yeah, I mean, maybe it's a necessary 00:04:40.940 --> 00:04:44.100 but not sufficient condition kind of thing. 00:04:44.100 --> 00:04:47.500 But I mean, happiness is also one of those words 00:04:47.500 --> 00:04:49.380 that it's a nebulous word. 00:04:49.380 --> 00:04:51.900 People use it in different senses, right? 00:04:51.900 --> 00:04:53.060 - Sure, sure. 00:04:53.060 --> 00:04:54.900 - Somebody, one person could mean happiness 00:04:54.900 --> 00:04:58.560 in the sense of being very, very fulfilled 00:04:58.560 --> 00:05:00.260 and having a sense of meaning and purpose 00:05:00.260 --> 00:05:01.480 and things like that. 00:05:01.480 --> 00:05:05.420 I think that could definitely be a definition of a good life. 00:05:05.420 --> 00:05:10.420 Another person uses happiness as a superficial thing, right? 00:05:10.420 --> 00:05:14.020 Where it just means like comfort 00:05:14.020 --> 00:05:17.380 or whatever like feel good kind of feelings 00:05:17.380 --> 00:05:20.580 without any like depth or purpose behind it. 00:05:20.580 --> 00:05:23.140 I think that's the sense where we were talking about 00:05:23.140 --> 00:05:24.960 that night was more, 00:05:24.960 --> 00:05:29.960 people definitely seem to often be pursuing those things 00:05:31.100 --> 00:05:36.100 in that sense of just some kind of comfort, feel good 00:05:36.100 --> 00:05:39.180 and want the feel good feelings, 00:05:39.180 --> 00:05:44.180 but at the cost possibly of a deeper meaning 00:05:44.180 --> 00:05:50.300 or purpose or pursuit in their life, right? 00:05:50.300 --> 00:05:51.500 - Right. 00:05:51.500 --> 00:05:55.060 Yeah, and I think that there's probably 00:05:55.060 --> 00:05:56.900 a spectrum of people in that camp. 00:05:57.840 --> 00:06:02.840 Some people, they're not capable of deeper fulfillment, 00:06:02.840 --> 00:06:10.880 not really able to find that solid rock of a good life. 00:06:10.880 --> 00:06:26.980 And then there are those who are rabidly in pursuit 00:06:26.980 --> 00:06:31.980 of just the catharsis of being happy. 00:06:31.980 --> 00:06:40.260 So, and I do believe some of those people 00:06:40.260 --> 00:06:46.380 are absolutely able to put together a philosophical idea. 00:06:46.380 --> 00:06:49.980 We just had a little interruption, 00:06:49.980 --> 00:06:52.220 so we're gonna have to recollect our thoughts. 00:06:54.340 --> 00:06:58.940 My rambling thought was that I believe 00:06:58.940 --> 00:07:03.460 there are certainly people who can put together 00:07:03.460 --> 00:07:07.900 a philosophical idea, who choose to just be happy. 00:07:07.900 --> 00:07:09.620 And you know what? 00:07:09.620 --> 00:07:12.020 I'm really not gonna tell them they shouldn't be. 00:07:12.020 --> 00:07:16.580 - I think that's fair actually, right? 00:07:16.580 --> 00:07:18.700 I mean, I guess what makes a good life 00:07:18.700 --> 00:07:21.560 depend on the person, right? 00:07:21.560 --> 00:07:22.400 - Yes. 00:07:22.400 --> 00:07:23.220 - Depends on the person. 00:07:23.220 --> 00:07:26.460 - That kind of reminds me of when I get challenged 00:07:26.460 --> 00:07:29.660 because, well, because I'm an atheist 00:07:29.660 --> 00:07:33.580 and I've gotten into a lot of arguments about this 00:07:33.580 --> 00:07:36.740 with people from my very religious past, 00:07:36.740 --> 00:07:38.980 get challenged about the question, 00:07:38.980 --> 00:07:40.220 well, how do you find purpose? 00:07:40.220 --> 00:07:42.260 How do you find meaning in your life? 00:07:42.260 --> 00:07:43.940 Or what is the meaning of life 00:07:43.940 --> 00:07:46.220 is another way that it gets asked. 00:07:46.220 --> 00:07:49.620 And I think a completely legitimate answer to that is, 00:07:49.620 --> 00:07:52.260 well, that's up to the person. 00:07:52.260 --> 00:07:55.440 That's up to the individual, right? 00:07:55.440 --> 00:08:00.440 And so I think very similar to what is a good life, 00:08:00.440 --> 00:08:03.620 that kind of is up to the person too. 00:08:03.620 --> 00:08:05.500 And so if it ends up being happiness, 00:08:05.500 --> 00:08:07.840 then that's great, I suppose. 00:08:07.840 --> 00:08:12.580 - Well, I think that, of course, 00:08:12.580 --> 00:08:15.320 what makes a good life, 00:08:15.320 --> 00:08:18.660 living it up to the person is 00:08:18.660 --> 00:08:21.060 not a really fulfilling answer. 00:08:22.020 --> 00:08:27.020 Because honestly, there needs to be some baseline. 00:08:27.020 --> 00:08:32.220 I think that there is a requirement for a good life 00:08:32.220 --> 00:08:39.620 that happiness then is the fortunate eventual result. 00:08:39.620 --> 00:08:48.660 But I think we need to have 00:08:51.560 --> 00:08:56.080 baseline elements that allow us to be happy, 00:08:56.080 --> 00:08:58.140 allow us to have a good life. 00:08:58.140 --> 00:09:07.420 So there's also, as I think about it, 00:09:07.420 --> 00:09:10.560 the difference between a good life for me 00:09:10.560 --> 00:09:12.920 and a good life for that guy. 00:09:12.920 --> 00:09:19.420 When I start to talk about a good life for someone else, 00:09:21.020 --> 00:09:26.020 I might be talking about my expectations of that person 00:09:26.020 --> 00:09:33.020 rather than what he or she wants, right? 00:09:33.020 --> 00:09:39.220 So I'm then projecting what a good life should be 00:09:39.220 --> 00:09:41.300 for that person. 00:09:41.300 --> 00:09:46.300 No, I believe that there are people who live extreme lives 00:09:48.140 --> 00:09:53.140 and those people have, when I say extreme, 00:09:53.140 --> 00:09:56.000 of course it's relative to me, 00:09:56.000 --> 00:10:01.260 they have criteria for happiness and fulfillment 00:10:01.260 --> 00:10:05.060 in a good life that is perverse. 00:10:05.060 --> 00:10:09.940 And I'm thinking of people who are 00:10:09.940 --> 00:10:17.660 living a violent life or a life of degrift 00:10:18.300 --> 00:10:22.620 where they are looking simply for their next victim 00:10:22.620 --> 00:10:29.140 or a person who's truly a psychopath 00:10:29.140 --> 00:10:34.640 and is really looking for his next victim. 00:10:34.640 --> 00:10:41.180 Those things I don't accept as acceptable, 00:10:41.180 --> 00:10:45.660 even though relatively I think a person 00:10:45.660 --> 00:10:50.660 is living his personal good life 00:10:50.660 --> 00:10:56.240 irrespective of my baseline. 00:10:56.240 --> 00:11:00.980 - Sure, so where's the line? 00:11:00.980 --> 00:11:05.980 Is it when somebody's behaviors harm others? 00:11:05.980 --> 00:11:12.940 - I think that while a person might say 00:11:12.940 --> 00:11:16.260 I'm living a good life and yet I'm a hit man 00:11:16.260 --> 00:11:22.820 for the mafia and I'm waiting for my next gig, 00:11:22.820 --> 00:11:30.100 I think we should reserve the right to say no, you're not. 00:11:30.100 --> 00:11:34.280 - Right, now what is the reason for that? 00:11:34.280 --> 00:11:35.700 The first thing that comes to my mind 00:11:35.700 --> 00:11:36.980 is well, because he's hurting, 00:11:36.980 --> 00:11:41.980 like he's part of a system that's very harmful. 00:11:42.980 --> 00:11:46.260 All right, to society, to people in general, right? 00:11:46.260 --> 00:11:47.100 Is that it? 00:11:47.100 --> 00:11:51.820 - I guess, I mean he's violating a basic principle 00:11:51.820 --> 00:11:56.140 that I hold and that is that we don't 00:11:56.140 --> 00:12:01.020 derive pleasure from other people's pain. 00:12:01.020 --> 00:12:06.020 - Yeah, right, which makes me then wonder 00:12:06.020 --> 00:12:08.100 so what about somebody who's living a life 00:12:08.100 --> 00:12:10.700 that as far as we can tell, 00:12:10.700 --> 00:12:13.500 we have every reason to think is that actually 00:12:13.500 --> 00:12:16.260 their choices are hurting them as an individual, 00:12:16.260 --> 00:12:18.180 like a drug addict or something like that 00:12:18.180 --> 00:12:22.940 or a bum or a super lazy person, whatever it is, 00:12:22.940 --> 00:12:26.000 but they're happy, they say that this is their best life. 00:12:26.000 --> 00:12:29.940 - Right, well I mean as far as what makes a good life, 00:12:29.940 --> 00:12:32.420 they got it nailed, right? 00:12:32.420 --> 00:12:37.420 But as far as what we externally, observationally, 00:12:40.220 --> 00:12:45.220 respect and want to encourage, 00:12:45.220 --> 00:12:51.640 that would probably not qualify, right? 00:12:51.640 --> 00:12:56.640 So there is cultural pressure that should play a part, 00:12:56.640 --> 00:13:01.460 and I'm gonna say prescriptively ought to play a part 00:13:01.460 --> 00:13:03.280 in a person's choices. 00:13:03.280 --> 00:13:05.460 I think if you don't care what other people think, 00:13:05.460 --> 00:13:10.460 you are a sociopath and your behavior 00:13:10.460 --> 00:13:16.540 is going to harm others and give you a charge. 00:13:16.540 --> 00:13:25.380 You're going to be pleased with the discomfort 00:13:25.380 --> 00:13:28.340 you've given to other people. 00:13:28.340 --> 00:13:32.700 I don't believe that I'm going to say 00:13:32.700 --> 00:13:35.460 that your good life is a good life. 00:13:35.460 --> 00:13:41.460 - Yeah, your good life versus a good life, 00:13:41.460 --> 00:13:42.700 interesting way to put it. 00:13:42.700 --> 00:13:47.700 - Yes, they are living an isolated bubble life 00:13:47.700 --> 00:13:55.740 that should be judged by the harm 00:14:00.700 --> 00:14:05.700 or the negativity that they're creating. 00:14:05.700 --> 00:14:10.260 - Yeah, yeah, sure. 00:14:10.260 --> 00:14:14.460 I mean they're creating negativity that's not helpful. 00:14:14.460 --> 00:14:19.460 - Right, so I think maybe they're in a holistic sense. 00:14:19.460 --> 00:14:22.260 If your good life is causing others 00:14:22.260 --> 00:14:27.260 to have a diminished life, 00:14:27.300 --> 00:14:32.300 perhaps that is an opportunity for growth. 00:14:32.300 --> 00:14:37.820 - That's a great way to put it. 00:14:37.820 --> 00:14:39.660 - You could grow a little. 00:14:39.660 --> 00:14:41.740 - An opportunity for growth, yeah, sure. 00:14:41.740 --> 00:14:46.060 - And not harm others with your own self-indulgence. 00:14:46.060 --> 00:14:51.420 Because, yeah. 00:14:52.420 --> 00:14:57.420 And I believe that there ought to be 00:14:57.420 --> 00:15:07.500 a cultural imperative to build our society 00:15:07.500 --> 00:15:14.620 as a more holistic collective that does uplift its members. 00:15:18.180 --> 00:15:23.180 If we are allowing people to live isolated 00:15:23.180 --> 00:15:32.660 lives of indulgence and self-interest, 00:15:32.660 --> 00:15:35.380 we don't have a community like that. 00:15:35.380 --> 00:15:40.980 I think of it as the different, 00:15:40.980 --> 00:15:44.140 sort of in the animal kingdom sense 00:15:44.140 --> 00:15:49.140 that there are lone wolves who just run alone 00:15:49.140 --> 00:16:00.340 and they happen upon wolf packs. 00:16:00.340 --> 00:16:06.420 Maybe they are able to sucker one of the females 00:16:06.420 --> 00:16:10.420 into a tryst and then they move on, right? 00:16:11.580 --> 00:16:16.580 That's not a society, I guess. 00:16:16.580 --> 00:16:21.860 He's not building a society by being a lone wolf. 00:16:21.860 --> 00:16:25.740 He's simply conducting his own interest. 00:16:25.740 --> 00:16:32.540 And we need to accept that lone wolves exist 00:16:32.540 --> 00:16:40.820 and that they sure are worthy of being alone. 00:16:41.180 --> 00:16:43.420 They have existence. 00:16:43.420 --> 00:16:50.700 But do we want to help them become a member of the pack? 00:16:50.700 --> 00:16:53.020 I think we do. 00:16:53.020 --> 00:16:58.020 You know, I think that if they're purely going to be separate 00:16:58.020 --> 00:17:04.860 and never really provide their own talents 00:17:04.860 --> 00:17:07.700 or inspiration to the community, 00:17:10.380 --> 00:17:14.100 that's a squander of resources and talent 00:17:14.100 --> 00:17:16.980 others could benefit from. 00:17:16.980 --> 00:17:23.300 To me, that's one of my moral foundational elements. 00:17:23.300 --> 00:17:28.860 - Yeah, now I'm trying to decide which, 00:17:28.860 --> 00:17:31.980 'cause I can see like a fork in the road 00:17:31.980 --> 00:17:35.260 of which direction to take the conversation. 00:17:35.260 --> 00:17:40.260 - Go for it, 'cause I really, I could either way. 00:17:40.260 --> 00:17:43.380 - Um, well, for one thing, 00:17:43.380 --> 00:17:45.180 I'm glad that you said the word indulgence 00:17:45.180 --> 00:17:48.700 'cause I feel like maybe that's a more fitting word 00:17:48.700 --> 00:17:51.540 for what I was thinking of when I said happiness. 00:17:51.540 --> 00:17:55.900 Happiness is something that could mean, 00:17:55.900 --> 00:17:57.540 it's used in a lot of different ways. 00:17:57.540 --> 00:17:59.100 Indulgence might be more of a word 00:17:59.100 --> 00:18:01.780 that I'm thinking of, a concept that I'm thinking of 00:18:01.780 --> 00:18:04.580 is like a life of indulgence. 00:18:04.580 --> 00:18:06.980 It seems to me what a lot of people 00:18:09.140 --> 00:18:11.180 pursue a lot of the time. 00:18:11.180 --> 00:18:13.700 I mean, including myself, right? 00:18:13.700 --> 00:18:15.220 It's not necessarily, I don't think it's necessarily 00:18:15.220 --> 00:18:19.060 a bad thing, but if that's all you're going for, 00:18:19.060 --> 00:18:22.260 you're making other compromises, important compromises 00:18:22.260 --> 00:18:24.420 for the sake of that, then maybe 00:18:24.420 --> 00:18:28.820 that's not gonna lead anywhere that great in the end. 00:18:28.820 --> 00:18:32.420 - And I mean, do you consider indulgence to be 00:18:32.420 --> 00:18:36.060 watching basketball all day Saturday? 00:18:36.060 --> 00:18:38.540 - Oh yeah, yeah. - Yeah, right. 00:18:38.540 --> 00:18:40.140 I don't think of indulgence as a bad thing. 00:18:40.140 --> 00:18:42.660 I think of it as a bad thing on its own 00:18:42.660 --> 00:18:46.380 to the exclusion of or at the cost of other things. 00:18:46.380 --> 00:18:48.540 - Yeah, yeah. - You know? 00:18:48.540 --> 00:18:53.220 I indulge, I'm indulging right now in beer. 00:18:53.220 --> 00:18:55.380 And so it's like, yeah, yeah. 00:18:55.380 --> 00:18:58.540 I'm not anesthetic by any means, 00:18:58.540 --> 00:19:01.700 but to lose perspective 00:19:05.660 --> 00:19:08.980 in terms of what matters maybe more than that. 00:19:08.980 --> 00:19:10.980 I think it's important, yeah. 00:19:10.980 --> 00:19:14.260 - Yeah, when I think of, 00:19:14.260 --> 00:19:22.580 when I think of the pressures to conform, 00:19:22.580 --> 00:19:29.340 I am remembering my time in high school 00:19:29.340 --> 00:19:35.220 and having heard, certainly kept my ear to the track 00:19:35.300 --> 00:19:40.300 and I've tried to understand the pressures 00:19:40.300 --> 00:19:43.900 that kids are still experiencing. 00:19:43.900 --> 00:19:49.420 There's an awful lot of, you know, 00:19:49.420 --> 00:19:53.220 the bullying of the weaker, 00:19:53.220 --> 00:19:58.220 of those that are considered to be not part of the pack. 00:20:00.580 --> 00:20:05.580 And, you know, I don't want to encourage that, of course. 00:20:05.580 --> 00:20:10.860 I want, it needs to be a positive encouragement. 00:20:10.860 --> 00:20:18.140 And I, by even deeper, more direct example, 00:20:25.900 --> 00:20:30.900 the incel groups that have risen as a response 00:20:30.900 --> 00:20:35.780 to the bullying that they've received 00:20:35.780 --> 00:20:43.020 does seem to be an inappropriate attempt 00:20:43.020 --> 00:20:51.540 to draw people, draw the lone wolf. 00:20:51.540 --> 00:20:54.660 Well, okay, draw them into the open 00:20:54.660 --> 00:20:56.860 and shoot them in the head, right? 00:20:56.860 --> 00:21:01.860 There is no interest in bringing the incel population, 00:21:01.860 --> 00:21:07.180 the people who consider themselves involuntarily celibate 00:21:07.180 --> 00:21:14.700 to be part of the celibate, the incelibate group, right? 00:21:14.700 --> 00:21:22.340 Not that I am trying to encourage women to do that. 00:21:22.340 --> 00:21:25.060 No, I mean, I'm encouraging men to be people 00:21:25.060 --> 00:21:27.800 that women want to consort with. 00:21:27.800 --> 00:21:34.020 We need our people to want to be a part of our community 00:21:34.020 --> 00:21:39.740 and be respectable elements of that community. 00:21:39.740 --> 00:21:46.420 And I feel like they're not living a happy life. 00:21:51.860 --> 00:21:56.860 I think that's probably the definition of not a good life, 00:21:56.860 --> 00:22:05.060 of when you're constantly feeling like you're not acceptable 00:22:05.060 --> 00:22:16.340 and you're not a viable member of polite society. 00:22:21.140 --> 00:22:25.620 So honestly, my heart goes out to kids, 00:22:25.620 --> 00:22:30.620 mostly guys who feel like they can't compete. 00:22:30.620 --> 00:22:39.580 And to that, I'm gonna say, put on your big boy pants, 00:22:39.580 --> 00:22:45.100 figure the shit out, understand what people want 00:22:45.100 --> 00:22:45.940 and don't get angry 00:22:45.940 --> 00:22:48.980 'cause they don't want an angry little asshole, right? 00:22:48.980 --> 00:22:53.860 They want a guy that's reasonable, nice. 00:22:53.860 --> 00:22:57.860 You ain't gotta be pretty, but you do have to be nice 00:22:57.860 --> 00:22:59.420 and you do have to be smart. 00:22:59.420 --> 00:23:05.740 Or if you're not smart, just don't be a dick, right? 00:23:05.740 --> 00:23:07.020 - Sure, yeah, right. 00:23:07.020 --> 00:23:12.180 - But I mean, I don't know if that really is my prescription 00:23:12.180 --> 00:23:16.420 for your happiness or your good life. 00:23:18.960 --> 00:23:23.960 I just feel like there's so many subcultures in America 00:23:23.960 --> 00:23:27.340 that cater to people who feel like they don't have 00:23:27.340 --> 00:23:29.920 the good life. 00:23:29.920 --> 00:23:30.760 - Yeah. 00:23:30.760 --> 00:23:37.460 Well, I guess all I can really say 00:23:37.460 --> 00:23:41.460 is what makes a good life for me. 00:23:41.460 --> 00:23:45.300 And, you know, clear, obviously, 00:23:45.300 --> 00:23:48.080 probably I've thought about that before. 00:23:48.080 --> 00:23:52.220 And I think I kind of know what drives me. 00:23:52.220 --> 00:23:57.220 And I hesitate to use that as a, you know, 00:23:57.220 --> 00:23:59.700 road book for other people. 00:23:59.700 --> 00:24:01.540 All I can say is what drives, 00:24:01.540 --> 00:24:03.380 but I do think I know what drives me. 00:24:03.380 --> 00:24:05.040 - Always at the starting point, shit. 00:24:05.040 --> 00:24:08.740 - Yeah, which is, I know what gets me going. 00:24:08.740 --> 00:24:11.180 I know what motivates me. 00:24:11.180 --> 00:24:16.100 And I've called it, I put a name on it for myself. 00:24:16.100 --> 00:24:21.100 And I've called it the chase that motivates me. 00:24:21.100 --> 00:24:26.100 Something to pursue, something to work towards a goal, 00:24:26.100 --> 00:24:29.400 some kind of a passion. 00:24:29.400 --> 00:24:30.700 - A reason to wake up. 00:24:30.700 --> 00:24:32.860 - Yeah, something to fight for. 00:24:32.860 --> 00:24:34.220 - Yeah, but even better. 00:24:34.220 --> 00:24:36.920 - Yeah, and like you said, 00:24:36.920 --> 00:24:38.740 other people may be pursuing other things. 00:24:38.740 --> 00:24:43.220 And all I can say is like this pursuit of, quote, 00:24:43.220 --> 00:24:48.220 any happiness or indulgence or comforts or even community, 00:24:48.220 --> 00:24:51.540 which I think is a little goes a little bit deeper. 00:24:51.540 --> 00:24:55.360 Those aren't that interesting to me. 00:24:55.360 --> 00:25:00.360 To me, I want something to fight for 00:25:00.360 --> 00:25:04.780 and something to keep on challenging me and to push me. 00:25:08.500 --> 00:25:13.500 - And I guess because of who I am or my experiences 00:25:13.500 --> 00:25:18.020 or whatever, I can only really imagine 00:25:18.020 --> 00:25:22.500 that that's very convincing to other people. 00:25:22.500 --> 00:25:23.500 But maybe I'm wrong. 00:25:23.500 --> 00:25:29.500 - Well, I mean, I feel like there's, 00:25:34.500 --> 00:25:38.460 I think you get a lot of points for saying that. 00:25:38.460 --> 00:25:41.460 But I don't think that you get a lot of converts 00:25:41.460 --> 00:25:48.100 by saying that. 00:25:48.100 --> 00:25:51.060 There is so few people, I think, 00:25:51.060 --> 00:25:56.060 that get fulfilled by building stuff. 00:25:56.060 --> 00:26:03.740 And I think when you say the chase, 00:26:03.740 --> 00:26:08.140 I mean, you're trying to assemble something 00:26:08.140 --> 00:26:11.900 from raw materials, the longer that happens, right? 00:26:11.900 --> 00:26:12.740 - Sure, yeah. 00:26:12.740 --> 00:26:15.340 - And sometimes it's physical, 00:26:15.340 --> 00:26:18.260 sometimes it's philosophical. 00:26:18.260 --> 00:26:23.260 But I don't know that the majority of people 00:26:23.260 --> 00:26:30.140 even see themselves as gaining fulfillment by creating. 00:26:31.860 --> 00:26:33.820 That element of creation, to me, 00:26:33.820 --> 00:26:38.820 is what drives our society forward. 00:26:38.820 --> 00:26:43.580 However, in any society, 00:26:43.580 --> 00:26:46.500 there are people who are support staff. 00:26:46.500 --> 00:26:49.500 There are people who just are happily, 00:26:49.500 --> 00:26:57.100 blissfully part of the backdrop 00:26:57.100 --> 00:27:00.900 and are not really trying to drive forward 00:27:00.900 --> 00:27:03.780 any of the progress that we're making. 00:27:03.780 --> 00:27:06.700 And I respect that completely, right? 00:27:06.700 --> 00:27:11.340 We need our support people. 00:27:11.340 --> 00:27:16.340 They're essential, otherwise it wouldn't function. 00:27:16.340 --> 00:27:21.900 But you're in a positive place 00:27:21.900 --> 00:27:28.500 where you, in fact, can effect change. 00:27:30.380 --> 00:27:35.340 I don't think that the people who are not making any effort 00:27:35.340 --> 00:27:37.580 are going to effect any amount of change. 00:27:37.580 --> 00:27:41.100 And from the change that you're looking for, 00:27:41.100 --> 00:27:43.660 it's going to be at least an improvement 00:27:43.660 --> 00:27:44.940 to a few people's lives. 00:27:44.940 --> 00:27:49.900 And that's what drives me as well. 00:27:49.900 --> 00:27:53.940 I hadn't thought of it from the perspective 00:27:53.940 --> 00:27:55.220 how you said it. 00:27:55.220 --> 00:27:58.460 But I am, 00:27:59.300 --> 00:28:04.300 unable to do things simply because they're fun. 00:28:04.300 --> 00:28:11.780 Simply because it gives me a charge. 00:28:11.780 --> 00:28:15.300 Well, once in a while, sure. 00:28:15.300 --> 00:28:17.900 But most of the things that I do 00:28:17.900 --> 00:28:22.220 are because I want to be a better person. 00:28:22.220 --> 00:28:23.900 And by being a better person, 00:28:23.900 --> 00:28:27.500 I am going to be in a better position 00:28:27.500 --> 00:28:31.020 to do bigger things. 00:28:31.020 --> 00:28:35.940 Gain respect from people, or whatever that is. 00:28:35.940 --> 00:28:40.820 And like exercise. 00:28:40.820 --> 00:28:43.020 I don't exercise just because it makes me feel good, 00:28:43.020 --> 00:28:44.940 because goddamn it, it doesn't feel good. 00:28:44.940 --> 00:28:46.660 It hurts like hell, right? 00:28:46.660 --> 00:28:51.260 But I do that because I want to be able to 00:28:51.260 --> 00:28:57.420 build things that require strength. 00:28:57.420 --> 00:29:02.180 I want to be able to present myself 00:29:02.180 --> 00:29:05.860 in a way that people say, 00:29:05.860 --> 00:29:10.860 huh, you know, you did it okay for your time on this earth. 00:29:10.860 --> 00:29:12.700 Yeah. 00:29:12.700 --> 00:29:14.740 Yeah. 00:29:14.740 --> 00:29:16.300 You time on this earth. 00:29:16.300 --> 00:29:17.420 Yeah, I like that. 00:29:17.420 --> 00:29:23.820 Because I'm always thinking about the fact 00:29:23.820 --> 00:29:26.740 that I have such a limited amount of time. 00:29:26.740 --> 00:29:28.780 Oh my God, so long. 00:29:28.780 --> 00:29:29.820 So little time. 00:29:29.820 --> 00:29:32.180 And I am kind of obsessed, I think, 00:29:32.180 --> 00:29:36.740 with this goal that I want to get to the end of my life, 00:29:36.740 --> 00:29:40.300 being able to look back and be very proud. 00:29:40.300 --> 00:29:41.220 Right. 00:29:41.220 --> 00:29:44.100 And say, you know, whatever it was, you know, damn right. 00:29:44.100 --> 00:29:44.980 Damn straight. 00:29:44.980 --> 00:29:47.260 I did do that, yeah, exactly. 00:29:47.260 --> 00:29:48.780 And so that's the thing. 00:29:48.780 --> 00:29:52.060 It's this sense of urgency constantly. 00:29:52.060 --> 00:29:52.900 Right. 00:29:52.900 --> 00:29:55.700 I don't know. 00:29:55.700 --> 00:29:56.540 Yeah. 00:29:56.540 --> 00:29:59.260 Yeah. 00:29:59.260 --> 00:30:02.020 I've been obsessed with this concept of time 00:30:02.020 --> 00:30:03.580 and its passing. 00:30:03.580 --> 00:30:04.420 Yeah. 00:30:04.420 --> 00:30:08.900 Since I could, you know, early teens. 00:30:08.900 --> 00:30:09.740 Yeah. 00:30:09.740 --> 00:30:11.780 Right, or maybe even before. 00:30:11.780 --> 00:30:16.780 And the fear that I have of letting time pass unnoticed. 00:30:16.780 --> 00:30:23.020 Yeah. 00:30:23.020 --> 00:30:24.300 I hate. 00:30:24.300 --> 00:30:29.300 I don't like, I don't like sleeping, you know. 00:30:29.300 --> 00:30:32.580 I want to be awake. 00:30:32.580 --> 00:30:34.020 I want to be doing shit, right? 00:30:34.020 --> 00:30:35.700 Right, yeah, yeah. 00:30:35.700 --> 00:30:36.660 Yeah, exactly. 00:30:36.660 --> 00:30:40.060 And I'm building things. 00:30:40.060 --> 00:30:45.380 Now, most of the things that I build 00:30:45.380 --> 00:30:49.140 are not nearly as beneficial as the ones you build, Ben. 00:30:49.140 --> 00:30:51.860 Most of the things I build are for me 00:30:51.860 --> 00:30:56.860 and very few people that I immediately affect. 00:30:56.860 --> 00:31:01.860 But you, on the other hand, 00:31:01.860 --> 00:31:04.940 you build things for hundreds of people. 00:31:04.940 --> 00:31:05.780 Yeah. 00:31:05.780 --> 00:31:10.780 And each of them are affected positively. 00:31:10.780 --> 00:31:13.460 Yeah, right, yeah. 00:31:13.460 --> 00:31:19.420 That was a big part of my decision to get into trades 00:31:19.580 --> 00:31:22.380 was this desire to do something 00:31:22.380 --> 00:31:25.100 that mattered in other people's lives. 00:31:25.100 --> 00:31:26.740 Yeah, directly. 00:31:26.740 --> 00:31:29.180 Directly, yeah, right. 00:31:29.180 --> 00:31:33.500 So, I think I had a train of thought 00:31:33.500 --> 00:31:36.420 that I was building up to, 00:31:36.420 --> 00:31:39.740 but I, yeah, I'll say it is good enough for now. 00:31:39.740 --> 00:31:41.140 Maybe it'll come back. 00:31:41.140 --> 00:31:41.980 Okay. 00:31:41.980 --> 00:31:46.980 But anyways, but I think you make a good point 00:31:46.980 --> 00:31:48.980 that not everybody's the same. 00:31:48.980 --> 00:31:51.420 And there's, like you say, support staff. 00:31:51.420 --> 00:31:55.420 Other people maybe have a different, 00:31:55.420 --> 00:31:58.260 you know, if you're talking about a society, 00:31:58.260 --> 00:32:01.340 I'll say like a different role or different interests. 00:32:01.340 --> 00:32:04.940 And maybe they're perfectly happy just being comfortable. 00:32:04.940 --> 00:32:09.940 And maybe I should give people more credit for that. 00:32:09.940 --> 00:32:12.140 Right. 00:32:12.140 --> 00:32:12.980 That's fine. 00:32:12.980 --> 00:32:18.620 Yeah, I mean, as a, you know, 00:32:18.620 --> 00:32:21.020 each individual, I'm fond of saying, 00:32:21.020 --> 00:32:26.340 wakes up every morning, decides what to do. 00:32:26.340 --> 00:32:29.540 Are they going to have breakfast? 00:32:29.540 --> 00:32:31.340 What clothes are they gonna wear? 00:32:31.340 --> 00:32:34.540 When are they gonna leave for the day? 00:32:34.540 --> 00:32:38.140 What are they gonna do between waking and leaving? 00:32:38.140 --> 00:32:40.580 Where are they going? 00:32:40.580 --> 00:32:44.900 These are all choices that a person makes. 00:32:44.900 --> 00:32:49.900 Some of them are encouraged, like, 00:32:49.900 --> 00:32:53.180 oh, we encourage you to arrive by eight o'clock 00:32:53.180 --> 00:32:56.420 in order to get paid, things like that. 00:32:56.420 --> 00:32:59.780 But others are discretionary. 00:32:59.780 --> 00:33:02.620 And you have a whole 00:33:02.620 --> 00:33:08.900 hassle of choices to make during your day, 00:33:08.900 --> 00:33:11.780 every day, all the time. 00:33:12.820 --> 00:33:16.300 And many of those are 00:33:16.300 --> 00:33:24.860 not, well, not truly part of the 00:33:24.860 --> 00:33:30.500 bulk of what would constitute a good life. 00:33:30.500 --> 00:33:34.940 Many of them are merely 00:33:34.940 --> 00:33:40.340 just maintenance activities. 00:33:40.940 --> 00:33:41.780 Mm-hmm. 00:33:41.780 --> 00:33:46.100 But if we have the right attitude, 00:33:46.100 --> 00:33:49.420 and if we realize that, you know, 00:33:49.420 --> 00:33:54.420 our ability to do things without fear of 00:33:54.420 --> 00:34:01.060 being attacked, physically attacked, 00:34:01.060 --> 00:34:05.700 being able to acquire food 00:34:05.700 --> 00:34:07.540 without having to kill something, 00:34:08.060 --> 00:34:13.060 being able to watch television. 00:34:13.060 --> 00:34:21.300 What an amazing thing that LCD screen is. 00:34:21.300 --> 00:34:26.060 And what an amazing thing is that we could, 00:34:26.060 --> 00:34:29.620 you could decide, if you had $150, 00:34:29.620 --> 00:34:32.340 you could decide to go to Florida. 00:34:32.340 --> 00:34:33.180 What? 00:34:33.180 --> 00:34:35.900 Florida? 00:34:37.380 --> 00:34:38.900 That's a people of life time to get there. 00:34:38.900 --> 00:34:40.780 You have no idea how far that is. 00:34:40.780 --> 00:34:43.580 I couldn't walk there in a year. 00:34:43.580 --> 00:34:46.820 But no, I could go there in two hours. 00:34:46.820 --> 00:34:47.900 Yeah. Okay. 00:34:47.900 --> 00:34:52.300 What an amazing, those are the appreciation 00:34:52.300 --> 00:34:57.300 of the foundational brilliance 00:34:57.300 --> 00:35:00.980 of today's society. 00:35:00.980 --> 00:35:03.820 And I don't think I'm speaking as an elitist here. 00:35:03.820 --> 00:35:08.820 I mean, honestly, I don't take a lot of plane rides. 00:35:08.820 --> 00:35:10.900 It's not a lifestyle of mine. 00:35:10.900 --> 00:35:15.900 But, and I don't think it's a requirement 00:35:15.900 --> 00:35:19.140 for a good life by any means, right? 00:35:19.140 --> 00:35:22.100 You can live a good life and never get on a plane. 00:35:22.100 --> 00:35:29.180 But we have to appreciate the smaller things, 00:35:31.540 --> 00:35:36.540 the finer things and maybe it's not a plane ride. 00:35:36.540 --> 00:35:41.580 Maybe it's merely the fact that you don't get shot 00:35:41.580 --> 00:35:43.380 walking out your door. 00:35:43.380 --> 00:35:46.780 I think maybe that's the baseline, right? 00:35:46.780 --> 00:35:51.180 We don't have, we're not living in the jungle 00:35:51.180 --> 00:35:53.580 where a boa constrictor can land on our head 00:35:53.580 --> 00:35:57.180 and squeeze the life out of us in 15 seconds, okay? 00:35:57.180 --> 00:35:58.740 We're not there. 00:35:58.740 --> 00:36:02.420 There's so many things that make it a good life. 00:36:02.420 --> 00:36:07.420 And I feel like the appreciation for the little things 00:36:07.420 --> 00:36:11.860 is probably the key. 00:36:11.860 --> 00:36:15.700 - Yeah, yeah. 00:36:15.700 --> 00:36:19.780 So, you know, perspective, whatever it is I think 00:36:19.780 --> 00:36:23.080 that people choose to do with their lives 00:36:23.080 --> 00:36:24.580 and make a good life, I think, 00:36:26.540 --> 00:36:29.300 like just maintain perspective. 00:36:29.300 --> 00:36:32.620 I think that that's worth having, whatever decision you make. 00:36:32.620 --> 00:36:35.660 Like you say, perspective about where you are in history 00:36:35.660 --> 00:36:38.140 and in society and how much, 00:36:38.140 --> 00:36:40.620 like we're saying, how far we've come 00:36:40.620 --> 00:36:43.220 and what your privileges actually are 00:36:43.220 --> 00:36:44.900 and where that comes from, 00:36:44.900 --> 00:36:48.940 why you're in the privileged position that you're in now. 00:36:48.940 --> 00:36:50.140 - Right. 00:36:50.140 --> 00:36:54.780 - Perspective about the time that you have on this earth 00:36:54.780 --> 00:36:56.340 and the fact that you really don't know how much time 00:36:56.340 --> 00:36:58.380 you have, you know the upper limit, 00:36:58.380 --> 00:37:00.740 but you don't know the lower limit. 00:37:00.740 --> 00:37:01.580 - No, I know. 00:37:01.580 --> 00:37:02.980 I mean, it could be five minutes. 00:37:02.980 --> 00:37:03.940 - Right, yeah. 00:37:03.940 --> 00:37:08.940 And so, I mean, whatever it is that you decide, 00:37:08.940 --> 00:37:10.500 like you need to make sure that you're deciding it 00:37:10.500 --> 00:37:13.300 like realistically and within the context 00:37:13.300 --> 00:37:15.700 of what's the reality that you live in, 00:37:15.700 --> 00:37:21.220 is a very broad, flowery maybe way of putting it, but. 00:37:21.220 --> 00:37:22.060 - Right. 00:37:22.060 --> 00:37:23.340 - But yeah, I mean, and we are, 00:37:23.340 --> 00:37:26.540 like what you were alluding to, 00:37:26.540 --> 00:37:29.820 we're at a ridiculously amazing time right now. 00:37:29.820 --> 00:37:30.660 - Sure are. 00:37:30.660 --> 00:37:33.940 - We all, even those of us who live in poverty 00:37:33.940 --> 00:37:36.620 are living like kings, historically. 00:37:36.620 --> 00:37:37.460 - Yes. 00:37:37.460 --> 00:37:39.540 - More than kings, historically. 00:37:39.540 --> 00:37:41.500 It's like insane. 00:37:41.500 --> 00:37:46.500 And I think it's worth keeping that in our minds, 00:37:46.500 --> 00:37:49.060 remembering that, yeah. 00:37:49.060 --> 00:37:54.060 - Yeah, we don't see the horrors that we've seen in the past. 00:37:54.060 --> 00:37:57.540 - Right. 00:37:57.540 --> 00:37:58.380 - Right. 00:37:58.380 --> 00:38:03.380 And so our lower limit of unhappiness is pretty high. 00:38:03.380 --> 00:38:06.900 - Right. 00:38:06.900 --> 00:38:07.740 - Yeah. 00:38:07.740 --> 00:38:08.580 - Right. 00:38:08.580 --> 00:38:11.740 - I, you know, have heard a rumor or stories 00:38:11.740 --> 00:38:16.740 of people in like Bangladesh going through the streets 00:38:17.580 --> 00:38:21.580 having no legs, going through the streets on a little cart 00:38:21.580 --> 00:38:25.580 with some meals, pushing themselves by their knuckles, 00:38:25.580 --> 00:38:26.940 asking for money. 00:38:26.940 --> 00:38:27.780 - Yeah. 00:38:27.780 --> 00:38:29.580 - Yeah. 00:38:29.580 --> 00:38:32.460 - I mean, and those people, like, 00:38:32.460 --> 00:38:35.420 there's people like that here in this country too, but. 00:38:35.420 --> 00:38:40.420 - Yeah, I mean, those are people that are being helped though. 00:38:40.420 --> 00:38:45.260 We aren't forcing them people, those people onto the street. 00:38:45.260 --> 00:38:46.100 - Yeah. 00:38:46.100 --> 00:38:51.100 - And to beg for money, in truth. 00:38:51.100 --> 00:38:53.580 - Right, maybe a better support system here. 00:38:53.580 --> 00:38:55.420 - I think that the people who are begging for money 00:38:55.420 --> 00:38:59.780 are just begging for extra money in America. 00:38:59.780 --> 00:39:04.780 - Yeah, and you know what, honestly, I've been fortunate 00:39:04.780 --> 00:39:07.820 enough not to be in a situation where I had to figure that out, 00:39:07.820 --> 00:39:11.220 where I had to know what resources are available. 00:39:11.220 --> 00:39:12.060 - Mm-hmm. 00:39:12.060 --> 00:39:13.820 - But I believe that a lot of people have told me 00:39:13.820 --> 00:39:16.380 and it makes sense to me that there's enough of a support system 00:39:16.380 --> 00:39:18.860 in this country that if you're really down on your luck, 00:39:18.860 --> 00:39:23.380 truly, legitimately, there's resources out there, so. 00:39:23.380 --> 00:39:27.380 - Right, there are people who don't qualify for those resources, 00:39:27.380 --> 00:39:30.700 but you know what, we need to have standards. 00:39:30.700 --> 00:39:35.700 So if they don't meet the standards for assistance, 00:39:35.700 --> 00:39:40.700 I think that they're living a good life in a way that is... 00:39:41.980 --> 00:39:44.380 - Yeah. - ...already supported. 00:39:44.380 --> 00:39:49.380 - So they wouldn't qualify because they're not that bad off yet. 00:39:49.380 --> 00:39:51.700 - Because they don't meet the criteria, whatever that is. 00:39:51.700 --> 00:39:53.660 - Okay. - I couldn't tell you what it is. 00:39:53.660 --> 00:39:55.580 - Right. You know, I think about this a lot. 00:39:55.580 --> 00:39:56.980 I think about this one example. 00:39:56.980 --> 00:39:59.980 This is one of, I'm sure, a lot of examples that even I have, 00:39:59.980 --> 00:40:02.980 let alone all other people. 00:40:02.980 --> 00:40:07.980 But I just remember thinking about how ironic it is, 00:40:07.980 --> 00:40:12.980 because I was at a dinner party with some friends, 00:40:12.980 --> 00:40:16.980 and some people came over, friends of friends came over. 00:40:16.980 --> 00:40:23.980 One guy came over, and we had a little fire in the yard after dinner. 00:40:23.980 --> 00:40:28.980 And so this guy, this is just an act on an example of his attitude. 00:40:28.980 --> 00:40:33.980 This guy, you know... - This fucking guy. 00:40:33.980 --> 00:40:38.980 - Yeah. I don't know. I just feel like he was in the embodiment of this attitude 00:40:38.980 --> 00:40:40.980 that I don't like. 00:40:40.980 --> 00:40:43.980 He brought gin to share. 00:40:43.980 --> 00:40:45.980 It was a pretty good gin, too. 00:40:45.980 --> 00:40:48.980 It had to be more than, like, 30 bucks for the bottle. 00:40:48.980 --> 00:40:50.980 I don't know why he's... 00:40:50.980 --> 00:40:53.980 I usually don't just pass a bottle of gin around. 00:40:53.980 --> 00:40:56.980 - It's like in Tok. 00:40:56.980 --> 00:40:59.980 - But whatever. I wouldn't have picked a gin, but whatever. 00:40:59.980 --> 00:41:01.980 It was actually not bad. 00:41:01.980 --> 00:41:04.980 But that's what I'm saying. 00:41:04.980 --> 00:41:09.980 Gin that's passable around as a drink by itself is a pretty decent gin. 00:41:09.980 --> 00:41:13.980 Whatever. He had tattoos all over his body. 00:41:13.980 --> 00:41:16.980 He had pretty nice shoes. 00:41:16.980 --> 00:41:20.980 And he was talking about how he was going to go on a trip. 00:41:20.980 --> 00:41:26.980 He was going to take off work and go on a trip for like a month in Europe. 00:41:26.980 --> 00:41:31.980 And at the same time, he's complaining about how... 00:41:31.980 --> 00:41:38.980 how blatantly effed over people like him are in this country. 00:41:38.980 --> 00:41:42.980 I don't remember exactly his example, but basically it was just a comparison game 00:41:42.980 --> 00:41:45.980 of "We have it so worse off than the rich." 00:41:45.980 --> 00:41:48.980 Right? "We have it so worse off than the rich." 00:41:48.980 --> 00:41:52.980 He didn't say, like, some people living in poverty. 00:41:52.980 --> 00:41:55.980 He included himself, for sure, in this group of people 00:41:55.980 --> 00:42:00.980 who are under, I guess, who are underprivileged 00:42:00.980 --> 00:42:04.980 or who are, like, living in poverty and living in this squalor 00:42:04.980 --> 00:42:08.980 and these terrible circumstances and things like that and have no future. 00:42:08.980 --> 00:42:12.980 And I just kept thinking to myself, like, "Dude, who paid for all those tattoos? 00:42:12.980 --> 00:42:15.980 Who paid for that bottle of gin that you're sharing with your friends 00:42:15.980 --> 00:42:20.980 and this month of travel that you're taking?" 00:42:20.980 --> 00:42:25.980 Like, it isn't that bad. You're not living that badly like you're trying to make out. 00:42:25.980 --> 00:42:29.980 What else do you think that the world owes you? 00:42:29.980 --> 00:42:33.980 Well, where you fucked up, though, is you didn't say anything. 00:42:33.980 --> 00:42:36.980 Right. You fucked that up. 00:42:36.980 --> 00:42:40.980 Because maybe you didn't want to get into it right then, 00:42:40.980 --> 00:42:42.980 but he doesn't get the message any other way. 00:42:42.980 --> 00:42:45.980 Yeah, I wanted to be invited back, hopefully. 00:42:45.980 --> 00:42:51.980 Yeah, I get it. I get it. And I also realized that saying something 00:42:51.980 --> 00:42:53.980 wouldn't have made much of a difference. 00:42:53.980 --> 00:42:54.980 No. 00:42:54.980 --> 00:42:59.980 I am of the opinion, though, that it's the little things. 00:42:59.980 --> 00:43:03.980 You never know what is going to make a difference. 00:43:03.980 --> 00:43:11.980 You never know when somebody's at that junction, or juncture, rather, 00:43:11.980 --> 00:43:16.980 that they're going to take a different track. 00:43:16.980 --> 00:43:22.980 Sure, maybe this is just me trying to make up for that. 00:43:22.980 --> 00:43:25.980 Yeah, I know. So if you're listening, Joe. 00:43:25.980 --> 00:43:29.980 Yeah, right, exactly. This is my penance. 00:43:29.980 --> 00:43:32.980 Figure your shit out, okay? 00:43:32.980 --> 00:43:36.980 Right, exactly. 00:43:36.980 --> 00:43:40.980 And, by the way, Joe, the gin was rocking. 00:43:40.980 --> 00:43:42.980 The gin was great. Please bring it again. 00:43:42.980 --> 00:43:48.980 Yeah, but stop your pissing and moaning, because, you know, nobody's impressed. 00:43:48.980 --> 00:43:53.980 I think that's another part of your zhuzh. 00:43:53.980 --> 00:44:01.980 Joe, if I could suppose to know you, is that I know people like you 00:44:01.980 --> 00:44:10.980 who aren't really feeling the pinch that you claim to have. 00:44:10.980 --> 00:44:18.980 You're simply feeling the envy of people that have accomplished more than you. 00:44:18.980 --> 00:44:24.980 And I will say it to your face, that you need to buck up. 00:44:24.980 --> 00:44:35.980 And by "buck up," I mean take responsibility for being the person that you hate. 00:44:35.980 --> 00:44:39.980 Be the Jeff Bezos, if you hate the Jeff Bezos. 00:44:39.980 --> 00:44:51.980 If you think you have the chutzpah in the kahunas to do what Jeff Bezos has done, do it, pussy. 00:44:51.980 --> 00:45:00.980 Otherwise, stop trying to make yourself feel better by making other people feel bad. 00:45:00.980 --> 00:45:03.980 Well, you know what Joe would say? I've spoken to a lot of Joes. 00:45:03.980 --> 00:45:05.980 Tell me, Joe, what would you say? 00:45:05.980 --> 00:45:11.980 He would say, "Well, Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk are crooks. That's how they got so rich." 00:45:11.980 --> 00:45:16.980 And you're not a crook, so you can't get ahead without stealing. 00:45:16.980 --> 00:45:17.980 Yeah. 00:45:17.980 --> 00:45:18.980 Nice. 00:45:18.980 --> 00:45:23.980 Have you seen that they basically don't pay any taxes? Have you seen that? 00:45:23.980 --> 00:45:29.980 Of course they don't pay taxes. They've got people. We don't have people. 00:45:29.980 --> 00:45:33.980 Right. Sure. Yeah. I don't know. 00:45:33.980 --> 00:45:38.980 You know what? That is okay, because you know what? 00:45:38.980 --> 00:45:42.980 And I think this is a fantastic segue into something I care a lot about. 00:45:42.980 --> 00:45:44.980 Let's do it. 00:45:44.980 --> 00:45:49.980 Having money is meaningless. 00:45:49.980 --> 00:45:54.980 The only way that money means anything is when you spend it. 00:45:54.980 --> 00:46:03.980 The irony of spending money is that you don't have it anymore. 00:46:03.980 --> 00:46:07.980 You give it to someone else. That's the essence of circular flow. 00:46:07.980 --> 00:46:17.980 You have to surrender your cake and let someone else eat it, right? 00:46:17.980 --> 00:46:19.980 You can't have your cake and eat it, too. 00:46:19.980 --> 00:46:27.980 That's the whole essence of having money. 00:46:27.980 --> 00:46:37.980 So complaining that people have money is meaningless. 00:46:37.980 --> 00:46:44.980 If Jeff Bezos is spending $10 million on his wedding, guess what? 00:46:44.980 --> 00:46:51.980 He ain't got that $10 million no more, and other people have it, right? 00:46:51.980 --> 00:47:00.980 So he gave $10 million. You can consider it a donation to charity if you wish. 00:47:00.980 --> 00:47:05.980 And I'm not defending unscrupulous behavior. 00:47:05.980 --> 00:47:13.980 I am simply saying it is not a problem to be rewarded for the benefits that you provide to society. 00:47:13.980 --> 00:47:36.980 The only reason that Jeff Bezos is rich is that his brainchild provided people with the best delivery system of quality goods imaginable. 00:47:36.980 --> 00:47:49.980 So if you're going to fault a guy for that, you're really suggesting that people need to pay more for worse things and wait longer to receive them. 00:47:49.980 --> 00:47:57.980 Somehow, I can't see that as being a beneficial society, and I also can't see that as being something we should encourage. 00:47:57.980 --> 00:48:05.980 We should not encourage lower performance at a higher price. 00:48:05.980 --> 00:48:09.980 - Mic drop. - Mic drop for sure, yeah. 00:48:09.980 --> 00:48:14.980 No, I definitely agree with you on that. 00:48:14.980 --> 00:48:21.980 I'm just thinking, as you were speaking of all the benefits in the last week I've gotten because of Jeff Bezos, right? 00:48:21.980 --> 00:48:30.980 I've told you before, I got some of my tools to own recently. 00:48:30.980 --> 00:48:38.980 I was looking around for tools like replacement drills and things like that to get going again, right? 00:48:38.980 --> 00:48:41.980 If it wasn't for Amazon, man, it would be a lot harder. 00:48:41.980 --> 00:48:49.980 I mean, there's drills available outside of Amazon, right, but they had the right drill and they had it with even a payment plan. 00:48:49.980 --> 00:48:56.980 I can stretch the cost out over the next couple months and whatever, and it would be ready and I could get in a couple days. 00:48:56.980 --> 00:49:03.980 These things, I don't know, these are the examples I feel like I'm kind of rambling on for no reason. 00:49:03.980 --> 00:49:10.980 But just to emphasize the point, yeah, he's contributed a lot to all of our lives all the time. 00:49:10.980 --> 00:49:14.980 And for sure, he deserves that money. 00:49:14.980 --> 00:49:19.980 And again, having that money doesn't mean anything. 00:49:19.980 --> 00:49:23.980 He has to spend it for it to mean anything to him. 00:49:23.980 --> 00:49:27.980 And when he spends it, it means something to the person who receives it. 00:49:27.980 --> 00:49:40.980 It's not like he's hoarding it and getting shit for free, right? 00:49:40.980 --> 00:49:46.980 Because he just keeps getting free stuff and he keeps getting more money, but he keeps getting free stuff. 00:49:46.980 --> 00:49:50.980 No, he has to pay $100 million for his yacht. 00:49:50.980 --> 00:49:54.980 That's $100 million he doesn't have anymore. $100 million into the economy. 00:49:54.980 --> 00:49:56.980 $100 million into the economy. 00:49:56.980 --> 00:50:12.980 And, you know, I'm going to say probably 500 families are grateful to be paid for building the yacht that he and Lauren Sanchez tour the world in. 00:50:12.980 --> 00:50:16.980 You know, God, what's wrong with that? 00:50:16.980 --> 00:50:24.980 Senator, do you think that some of this, when people get so upset at the thought that there's these billionaires out there with all this money while there's all these poor people, 00:50:24.980 --> 00:50:33.980 do you think that, is it this idea that somebody having this money means that's money somebody else would have had? 00:50:33.980 --> 00:50:36.980 Yes. That's what they think. 00:50:36.980 --> 00:50:37.980 Right. 00:50:37.980 --> 00:50:40.980 They think, oh my God, you just stole it from that poor person. 00:50:40.980 --> 00:50:49.980 Because this is money, like money is a pie, and you just cut it up and if you've got like a huge chunk of the pie, that means everybody else missed out on the rest of the pie, right? 00:50:49.980 --> 00:50:54.980 But what you're not taking, you're not really, that's not what it is. It's not a pie. 00:50:54.980 --> 00:51:08.980 It's a, it's a, it's a, it's a weather system where it rains, it accumulates, it evaporates, it rains, it accumulates, it evaporates. 00:51:08.980 --> 00:51:12.980 And it just keeps going in this cycle constantly. 00:51:12.980 --> 00:51:20.980 And the way that Jeff Bezos got his money is from these poor people giving it to him, right? 00:51:20.980 --> 00:51:33.980 These poor people thought they got a better deal on Amazon than if they went to Ace Hardware, or if they went to Barnes and Noble, or if they went to any of a million other places that Amazon now competes with. 00:51:33.980 --> 00:51:35.980 Yeah. 00:51:35.980 --> 00:51:43.980 I think what was, there was a book I was reading, but I remember the, I can't remember which of his books it was. I read a few of them. 00:51:43.980 --> 00:51:48.980 Which helped me with this economic, like, concept. 00:51:48.980 --> 00:51:55.980 Steven Pinker. Great. Anybody out there? Steven Pinker is a genius. He's great. 00:51:55.980 --> 00:51:56.980 Yes he is. 00:51:56.980 --> 00:52:06.980 Oh, you're familiar with him too? Oh yeah, okay. Yeah, he totally is. Scott knows all about him. 00:52:06.980 --> 00:52:26.980 He explained to my tiny little mind about economics just a little bit, enough for me to understand that money is not this limited thing, that it has to be divided equally among people. It's something that's generated through value. 00:52:26.980 --> 00:52:38.980 And it can be created, like value is created, and then everybody benefits from that value, right? And so it's a good thing in my mind when rich people are ridiculously rich. 00:52:38.980 --> 00:52:48.980 I mean, if they didn't gain it, like, you know, there's corrupt dictators and things like that who got their money from stealing it from others and subjugating other people, of course not. 00:52:48.980 --> 00:52:58.980 But there's other very, very rich people who gain it, you know, by providing value. That's a good thing. 00:52:58.980 --> 00:53:22.980 And yes, maybe they "steal it" by not paying taxes, but honestly, the socialist imperative is to tax the shit out of people, okay? They want people to pay taxes through the nose. 00:53:22.980 --> 00:53:32.980 And "steal it," I guess, taking it is stealing it by taxes. 00:53:32.980 --> 00:53:56.980 And I feel like that's kind of...maybe...well, I don't see...I want to edit this part because I feel like an idiot. I lost my train of thought. 00:53:56.980 --> 00:54:02.980 That makes you more relatable, so you saw yourself up there deep usually. 00:54:02.980 --> 00:54:10.980 I was. And now I'm down with the rest of us. 00:54:10.980 --> 00:54:24.980 Yeah, but I think not paying taxes is just playing by the rules. You know, he's playing by the rules. If the rules were different, he would play by those rules. 00:54:24.980 --> 00:54:34.980 Yeah. Yeah. And I also feel like I'm starting to lose it a little bit because I had a... 00:54:34.980 --> 00:54:42.980 Well, because we've been partying all day, right? It's impossible to drink all day if you don't start in the morning. 00:54:42.980 --> 00:54:54.980 Right. Oh yeah, I think I was going to try to tie it back to, as you were talking about, providing value, right? 00:54:54.980 --> 00:55:18.980 Something...because I was kind of poopooing the idea at the beginning of happiness and the sense of indulgence being a good life. And I think one of the ways of doing something that is more meaningful, a bigger thing to pursue, a higher pursuit, is providing value for others. 00:55:18.980 --> 00:55:36.980 That's one of the things that motivates me in the work that I do, is because I can see day-to-day that I'm contributing something to other people, providing value. I can see that in Jeff Bezos, and Ivan Musk, and the others that are getting filthy rich off of these things, these ideas that they're... 00:55:36.980 --> 00:56:02.980 Yep. And the truth, you don't have to like their politics. No. Right? You simply need to respect the process. You, being the person, the aspirational person who wants to be both happy and cared for. 00:56:02.980 --> 00:56:23.980 I think that money, while it's not a recipe for happiness, it's certainly a prerequisite for you. If you aren't able to pay your basic needs, the odds of living a good life and being happy are low. 00:56:23.980 --> 00:56:43.980 No. True. There are several thousands of non-precurrency societies that don't require money in a job. Right? 00:56:43.980 --> 00:56:57.980 Money in a job was invented 200 years ago with the Industrial Revolution. Before that, it was far less assured. 00:56:57.980 --> 00:57:26.980 Yes. Thank you to the labor unions for providing stability in our system and giving us the five-day work week. However, now, it's a far different world where we're absolutely dependent on providing value to our employer and that employer saying thank you by giving us the paycheck. 00:57:26.980 --> 00:57:47.980 Period. And stop complaining about it. Right? Because that's the whole reason that they're paying you, little millennial who thinks that they deserve stuff for being alive. 00:57:47.980 --> 00:57:58.980 Are we millennials still the issue? I don't know. I was hoping that I'd gotten to the point where I could be one of the old, cantankerous people complaining about it. 00:57:58.980 --> 00:58:01.980 No. Nobody's a millennial. I'm a millennial too. 00:58:01.980 --> 00:58:29.980 Okay. Yeah. Well, the guy that I was complaining about earlier is a millennial. Yeah. We millennials still are. Yeah. So if you just quit your bitching and recognize that you are a happy cog in the wheel, you are making the world go round one contribution at a time. 00:58:29.980 --> 00:58:46.980 Yeah. That is compensated and acknowledged through the paycheck you receive. And hopefully you receive one because, you know, Ben, in your situation, you know, gradually you get some of the money up front, but some of the time you take in the shorts, right? 00:58:46.980 --> 00:58:57.980 Definitely. It's happened a lot. Yes. Right. You don't always make money. No, I've lost a lot. Yeah. But go ahead. 00:58:57.980 --> 00:59:12.980 And I've been in a consulting situation where I do the work ahead of time. I give them a bill and I, and they give me a ghost. They ghost me. Wow. I don't get paid. Yeah. And what do I do? 00:59:12.980 --> 00:59:19.980 That's happened to me a couple times too. Yeah. Fortunately, not too much. Yeah. 00:59:19.980 --> 00:59:36.980 And so it is something to be grateful for to have a reliable employer. But I will say that was a choice of mine. No, I chose that because there's another value in the system that I've decided to be a part of the contracting system. 00:59:36.980 --> 00:59:48.980 There's a risk. I've definitely paid a lot of money just to finish a project rather than get paid for it. And then I've worse off at the end than I was if I just never went to work in the first place. 00:59:48.980 --> 00:59:58.980 I've done that. But there's other value. There's value in the sense of freedom and independence in choosing my own schedule, my own means and my own methods. 00:59:58.980 --> 01:00:07.980 And all of those kinds of things is all intangible. But it's all value. Sure. That's why I made the decisions that I made. 01:00:07.980 --> 01:00:29.980 I think we have to acknowledge choice is a massive factor and that we have so many choices and we pick the best one. And in truth, I technically had a choice, but my choice was different from yours. 01:00:29.980 --> 01:00:44.980 I didn't want to be a contractor, but I didn't have another better choice. And I really think that's the essence of it all is to grade your choices, pick the right one or the best one rather. 01:00:44.980 --> 01:01:01.980 And if you don't see it out there that is in evidence, you have to be a very innovative person and create one. But you always pick the most advantageous route to take and take it. 01:01:01.980 --> 01:01:24.980 I took the contracting position because I was desperate. I had nothing else. And I could advertise and I could maybe hook somebody that was willing to pay me $50 an hour and have a low risk. 01:01:24.980 --> 01:01:43.980 Those were times when that I would have chosen an employer in a minute, but I didn't have that option. And yes, while I was doing the contracting, I was actively trying to find a solid nine to five. 01:01:43.980 --> 01:02:07.980 But in truth, I'm never going to say that I didn't have a choice. I simply had to choose an option that was perhaps not the one that I would have chosen from the Sears catalog. 01:02:07.980 --> 01:02:17.980 You know, if I'd have picked it out of the catalog, it would have looked a lot different. Sure. That's where sometime, you know, maybe we can prepare for it a little more, whatever. 01:02:17.980 --> 01:02:25.980 But sometime I'd like to have a conversation on one of these podcasts about the free market. We talked about that tonight to a degree. 01:02:25.980 --> 01:02:38.980 But yeah, because I think the thing that appeals to me so much about that is the choice aspect. Yes. Right. Because to my understanding, that's what it's all about. Yeah. 01:02:38.980 --> 01:02:58.980 All right. Is that there are options. There are choices out there available for you. Yeah. And trust is a very benefit. Right. Because I think having 500 choices all look the same. Not very interesting. That's what I see socialism as being. 01:02:58.980 --> 01:03:12.980 Right. Free market. I feel like it kind of solves a lot of those issues because choices are viable are going to present themselves. Right. And if you want something that's better, you somehow either need to sell yourself. 01:03:12.980 --> 01:03:34.980 You know, as providing that value, or in fact, make it up yourself. But you can't complain in today's market that it's all against you. It's all tipped against you. 01:03:34.980 --> 01:03:51.980 Sorry to say you could play a play a part in your own happiness and your own good life. And with that, I think perhaps we need to thank you for your marginal attention. 01:03:51.980 --> 01:04:14.980 Because I'm confident you didn't hear everything we said, nor should you have because, honestly, it was not worth hearing. But your support and your interest has means a lot to us and with that, we wish you a sweet idea. 01:04:14.980 --> 01:04:21.865 Thank you so much. Thank you.